“With my temper, that would have been too distasteful.“

Valeria Novodvorskaya: With my character, it would be too counterintuitive.

Zoya Master – Russian Bazaar No44(811) November 3 – 9, 2011

The name of Valeria Novodvorskaya for many people on both sides of the ocean causes irritation, bewilderment, grin.
It is awarded with epithets so unflattering that you do not want to bring them to a respected publication. But after reading her articles, listening to a radio interview and talking to her, you come to an unexpected conclusion: it is charisma or its absence that often determines the attitude towards a person and what he does. That's how we're made.

And if a person who does not have athletic posture, glamorous appearance and a pleasant tone of voice, tells not just the truth, but too much truth, then this oversaturated solution in large quantities causes rejection even in those who think exactly like this stimulus.
But how much truth is too much? And how many grammes of it is per ton of political correctness?
It's up to everyone.

On youth and the meaning of life: “The maximumism of youth is the inoculation against fanaticism in more mature years.”

- Let's talk about you. I'd like to ask you something first. Your great-grandfather was a professional revolutionary. Grandfather, born in the Tobolsk prison, fought in the army of Budyonny. His parents were Communist. How does a girl grow up in such a reliable family who dreams of overthrowing the communist regime through an armed uprising and organizes an underground group as a student? What made you throw yourself into politics and dissent instead of teaching French peacefully?
- In fact, this has always been the case in Russia. It was the educated, intelligent class that went into the Narodniks, then into the SRs. Of course I shouldn't have. But this is a purely internal problem that has no logical or scientific explanation. I lived in an artificial, fuzzy reality. I was ten years old, but everything around me seemed completely abnormal. I hated marching columns, parades, all this tinsel. Where this rejection comes from is hard to say. Of course, you could be silent, hide your thoughts and feelings, live a double life, but with my character it was too disgusting. You could have tried running later. What people didn't do. They even made up as blacks to go to the American embassy – they, the poor, did not know that a helicopter could not land there. On the rafts sailed away, the planes seized. Well, I was a well-read girl, so I decided I had to start an organization and fight with propaganda and more.

- Like terrorist volunteers?
- Approximately. I was very young and did not understand that this would not work in the USSR, that such tactics could work only in tsarist Russia. And it took them forty years to rock that boat.

- At a young age, when you dream about the future, who did you see yourself as?
- Actually, I probably saw myself as dead. Yes, and I naively thought that the path I had set out would be a little shorter, that once I gave a sign, people would get in touch and fight.

- Every normal person has an instinct for self-preservation. Well, if not himself, then at least fear for the people close to him. And he sets priorities: what is more important is the forbidden book Solzhenitsyn read by him or the safety of the family. Now they don't get jailed for books, but we have to admit that journalists are sometimes shot. And you write so boldly about Putin, doomed to perpetual reign: “...his head stuck above the political context like the head of a viper from young rye.” Very poetic, I would say, allegory. But you inevitably think: is the person who wrote this reckless, or is he simply not taken seriously, or is freedom of speech and the democracy for which he fights, in fact, live and prosper – otherwise was it possible to compare the Prime Minister with a viper with impunity? What is the name of the place where he presides? In America, freedom of speech is hard to imagine.
 - I think you're comparing anyone to anyone.

 - But not with creepy bastards...
- You found this in the online edition, and there you can still write a lot and different things. I would agree that this is not the case on television, The New York Times, and other respectable publications. But is it more appropriate to accuse George W. Bush of complicity in the bombing of the Twin Towers to start a war in Iraq? But this film was made, which went to all theaters and won the award in Cannes. Of course, complete idiocy, but many believe because it is more convenient. In Russia, there is Novaya Gazeta, The New Times magazine, where I have my own column, and the Echo of Moscow radio station, where I am invited to speak once a month. These are the regime’s business cards. There is no harm from them, because the people are completely prostrated and the authorities know that we cannot “raise” anyone. So you're right about that, they're not afraid of us, so why touch us? And for the United States, it's proof: look what freedom we have. Please call us dragons, pterodactyls, boas. So, the picture from Mowgli – Do you hear me, Banderlogs?

 - This is my favorite childhood book.
 - Right now, it's in big gear. When Viktor Shenderovich called Putin the boa consort of Kaa, TV-6 was shut down. Shenderovich shut down three channels. ORT was closed after in the program “Dolls” Putin was parodied in the image of a baby Tsakhes. (Little Tsahes, nicknamed Zinnober, is a character in Hoffmann’s fairy tale, a dwarf gifted by the fairy Rosabelverde with the magical power to attract people and appropriate others’ merits.) - Wikipedia. And the TVS channel, where Evgeny Kiselev left, because he had nowhere else to go, was closed because of the film “10 years that shocked us”, made also according to the script of Viktor Anatolyevich. Democracy and freedom of speech are here.

On Russia: “The roads that lead nowhere start the furthest.”

- We must do everything possible to make life in Russia normal. You have devoted yourself to Russia. And in the press and in the forums, to put it mildly, you are not favored, and your efforts, it seems, did not find much gratitude. The editor-in-chief of Literaturnaya Gazeta, together with Konstantin Borov and Vladimir Bukovsky, was brought to such a boiling point that he called you enemies and fathers. I also thought, probably, only true patriots speak such sanguine Russian. So, maybe people are quite happy with what they have, or maybe their understanding of normal life is different from yours? What do you think it means to live normally and can you give an example of a “normal” country?
- Of course I can. Only people don't like it. Because he wasn't raised in a normal environment, and I'm afraid he won't be rehabilitated. Of Polyakov, I will say that he is a good writer, but a very angry person. As for normal life, people are trying to get back to the Soviet Union, but with full shops and without queues.

- And yet, is it fair to put life under developed (and not so) socialism on the same level as today? We must also recognize the positive changes that are taking place in Russia. Look, Russians not only travel around the world, but also buy real estate there, open businesses. Who could have imagined this even 20 years ago?
- Yes, wiser gebashniks no longer do manic stupidities. Not only have they stopped grabbing us for treating them badly, they have opened the floodgates and no one else is being held. Those who are willing and able to survive under capitalist conditions no longer need to sit on the carpentry. It's such a draught that brains just fly out of the country. And the more they leave, the lower the quality of what remains. They don't need smart guys here.

- Explain, then, why are so many yearning for Soviet times?
- It was they who had already gone glitches, which then was good, well lived, order was justice. But the people had one thing that is not there now. He could flatter himself with the idea that he was not alone, but everyone was living badly, because there was no arrogant neighbor who was smarter, more literate, more capable and built a house for himself, and put an Audi in the garage. Why does the vast majority not support Khodorkovsky? Why do you hate the rich so much? We are used to the idea that inequality is the norm. After all, the Communist Party acted very wisely: they ate their mind-blowing rations at home and did not stick out, and no one saw them eating their eggs with spoons. Though we suspected it. And now the situation is: caviar is sold, but you can't buy it. Ex-neighbor bought a cottage, and you live in a crutch. It's a lot harder to get through than waiting for toilet paper. There are normal countries. The fewer elements of leftism and social assistance, the more normal the country is.

- Like what?
- For example, the UK and the US are more normal than France – there are fewer leftists.
“Putin is a head. Don't put your finger in his mouth.”

 - Many politicians, Russian and foreign, Medvedev’s announcement to run for the next term took him by surprise. They didn’t seem prepared for this turn of events, unlike the Brighton Beach picket vests that predicted the Putin-Medvedev-Putin castling four years ago. They had no doubt that Putin was a head. Still, how can one explain that Medvedev, whose approval rating was higher than Putin’s, did not seize his chance to win the election?
 - Well, of course, it would be strange if the peak vests that lived under Soviet power were wrong. But Medvedev did not have a high rating, not even a single free step he made. And he went to this shame consciously, as a heating pad for Putin’s chair. It could only surprise those who reassured themselves that two hands were bad and four were good, that Medvedev was so intelligent and advanced. That was his role.

 - Do you think Medvedev had no chance of winning the election?
 - He didn't even have a chance to go because he doesn't decide. And what was new was the permission to get brazen, that is, to drop the masks, to stop saying beautiful words.

- Do you think Putin will last 12 years?
- And in twelve years, no one will come, they will sit down for pleasure. Why break a comedy when everyone will be applauded? Even without a show.

All the people and organizations in the world are divided into two kinds: those who hate America and those to whom it pays.

- You called the United States a showcase of humanity. What is there in this window that is not in others?
- Your window has a clear electoral system, and this is insurance against surprises. And so far, it's worked because it's got a lot of strainers and it's just impossible to do anything against democracy. Everything is provided and everything is reasonable. And besides, I like a showcase where they don't lie very much. Europe has long survived at the expense of the US and Britain. And if it were not for their military potential, Europe would have gone to Moscow before perestroika. This is the power on which the Declaration of Human Rights rests.

 - But, unfortunately, America is not yet ready, as France has done, to admit that the multiculturalism theory that is being implemented and extolled to the sky has failed, because the country’s identity must stand above the identity of immigrants – in particular, those who, taking advantage of its benefits, give nothing in return.
 - These are different situations. France is a much more mono-ethnic country.
And the problem with them is that all the Maghrib who came there gets social.
If they didn't, everyone would be at home. So thanks to the free cheese offered to the slackers, they've driven themselves into a mousetrap. In America, there are fewer benefits, so they still go there to work.

 - I'll allow myself to object. Today, the original notion of America as a melting pot has lost its meaning. For example, the Muslim community is not even close to this pot, although it sends its children to public schools and does not hesitate to accept financial and social assistance not only from the state, but even from Jewish organizations. America is awash with illegal immigrants who live a completely tribal life, showing no interest in the traditions or even the language of the country.
- Americans have a sense of guilt. They are the defenders of the weak. Barack Obama’s election as president is an attempt to pay off old promissory notes for slavery, for apartheid. Well, that's it, you don't have to worry, move on. And building a mosque on Ground Zero is also not worth it. Not because Muslims have no right to do so, but because descendants will not understand.

- Every nation has the government it deserves. Do you think that the election of Barack Obama, who is clearly sympathetic to Marxist ideas, is a consequence of the poor teaching of world history in American schools and colleges?
- Yes, I've been told that there are so many leftists at Harvard and Yale that it's impossible to study there. They glorify Marxists, they glorify socialism that has never existed anywhere. This is a very expensive stupidity and illusion. Well, it's a pity that President Obama never lived in the Soviet Union and didn't communicate with my mom's chief of the General Directorate of Health, who once said on a plank, "Do you think we have free healthcare?" We don't have good healthcare. There can't be free medicine, otherwise you'll get doctors who are dangerous to approach. And you don't get hospitals, you get leprosy. I will add that education should be paid. Why did the Sorbonne drop out of even the second-hundred best universities in the world? Because they decided to teach everyone and teach for free. You can give scholarships, loans for training, but you need to pay.
Then the diploma will have value.

- Sober-minded Americans, especially those from the Soviet Union and socialist countries, are concerned about the government’s persistent attempts to interfere in the lives of its citizens. They cannot help but be disturbed by the slogans familiar from childhood: to take away and divide, from all according to their abilities, to all according to their needs, because it is frightening for a normal person living in a normal capitalist country to even imagine that the “ghost of communism” that roamed Europe could take root in America.
Why do you think this is happening?
 - There are no real communists in America. There are those who have been corrupted by benefits. And now it turns out that the country cannot afford it. I predicted 20 years ago that the rope would come to an end, because you can't give something to someone for free for decades. You have to live within your means. It's very difficult to take. It was better not to. And now it is necessary to raise the retirement age, take welfare, benefits – and first of all from foreigners coming to eat America. An example is Eduard Limonov, an enemy of America, who received a Welfer there and with this money wrote all sorts of nasty things about this country.

 - Then I ask you to make another prediction: will Barack Obama be elected for a second term?
 - I think not. Judging by the videos on the Internet, it is his electorate that is sitting in these tents on Wall Street right now and demanding that the banking system be destroyed – the dumb people who believe that banks are the epitome of evil. After being supported by Muslims who decided to hold Friday prayers nearby, there is no doubt about the composition of the Wall Street occupiers. It's not successful people who are protesting, it's those who voted for Obama. That is, not only did the Republicans dissatisfied with the president, but those who voted also got nothing. Because you didn't have to promise the impossible. This is possible in Russia and no one will ask. The next generation will live under communism, each family will have a separate apartment, ahead of America in the amount of meat, butter and milk per capita. But in the United States, they ask, because people's memory works normally. And they will ask, Mr. President, where is the free healthcare you promised? Demagoguery does not lead to anything good. Well, there will be a lesson: listen to what a person says, not look at the color of the skin.

 On freedom and tolerance: “Many dream of freedom: only some of them how to get it, others how to take it away.”

- When a person says, “I want to be free,” what does he mean: freedom of thought, of spirit, of speech, of conscience, when you squeeze a slave out of yourself and become free with the last straw? Are you a free man? What does it mean to be a free person?
 - To be a free man means to stand on your own feet, to feed yourself with your labor, not to wait for handouts from the state, not to be in close relations with it, to vote for whom you want and say what you think. Why can’t I call myself a free person? Because you can't be free in a country where free people are rarely caught. In a slave country, your own freedom is compromised. Camus said, “Liberty will be hard labor if one man on earth remains a slave.” ?

 - That's pretty pretentious. The same Camus said, “He who does not lie is free.” ?
 - That's right. How can you respect a country if you are ashamed to name your citizenship?

- Yes, you once wrote that “every cultural foreigner turns on the counter” when he sees a Russian because he remembers the Chechen wars, Russia’s friendship with Hamas, North Korea, gas blackmailers and the attack on Georgia. You admit that, calling your state residence permit, always mentally stumble, frown and blush. But when I was in Europe, I noticed that Russian-speaking tourists were more sympathetic than Americans. What explains that?
- It's very simple. Russian tourists are suspicious of them, but what does it matter when they come to Nice or Courchevel and leave a lot of money there, including for tea? As for American tourists, they come from the country of the future, and even the goodies are jealous of the excellent students.

- You are constantly reproached for the rejection of any government, for the fact that you a priori consider the government an evil, that if you lived not in Russia, you would still become a dissident. Can a politician, especially a leader of a party or state, be a moral person? Is morality possible in politics, and if so, give the names of the politicians whose work you respect?
- This is absolutely stupid. I am not fighting any government, I am against its individual decisions. There are no gross violations of democracy in the West. For example, the policy of the President of France suits me, but with his decision to sell Russia helicopter carriers “Mistral” I would fight.

Of course, I am more satisfied with the Republican Party than the Democratic Party. But I wouldn’t go into opposition to Clinton because he’s a very enlightened man. I like Berlusconi. He's saving Italy from the left. The fact that he's dating girls is for his own money. I don’t like his warm relationship with Putin, but I suspect it’s for gas.
As for the truly moral politicians, it is President Reagan who turned history in the right direction and destroyed the USSR – purposefully and ideologically. Margaret Thatcher is another example of a more than worthy person. These are the policies that are really worth targeting.

 - Valeria Ilyinichna, here you write: Our intelligentsia has not learned over the past hundred years to bear its loneliness with dignity. Then they turn to the mob, then to the power. A complete country of persons with disabilities, that is, persons with intellectual, political and civic disabilities.” Who hasn’t kicked the intelligentsia, but why didn’t they please you?
- Our intelligentsia has always had two vices: blind, sweet love for the people, even a certain admiration for them, and various utopias. If it weren’t for that, the year 17 would not have happened, at least not in October. Yeah, she can't without power. He's leaning. It cannot pass between Scylla and Charybdis. She's always dropping in. You can’t really, at the beginning of perestroika, call a writer’s organization “April” just because Gorbachev came in April!

- Recently, an American Jewish teacher gave me a roadmap for resolving the eternal conflict between the Palestinian Authority and Israel. She said that tolerance should be nurtured from childhood and that the wisest way is to exchange children. For three years. Then a Palestinian child raised by a Jewish mother, as well as a child born by Hamas, will become practically brothers when they grow up. What would you say to this woman?
 - That this is utter idiocy. You'll translate Chukovsky's Cockroach to her. What kind of mother would give up her precious child?
so that the insatiable effigy may torture the poor child.” Of course, giving a Palestinian child to a Jewish family would be wonderful. But giving any child to Palestinian fanatics is insane, because if they make suicide bombers out of their own children, let alone strangers. There's another solution. It is very short, but humanity will have to revise some postulates. The UN must withdraw its resolution on the establishment of a Palestinian state, for it has already been proved that they cannot create any state other than a terrorist one. And stop all support for the unfortunate Palestinian bandits. The Gaza Strip will become a full-fledged territory of Israel, and they will adapt, live and even work, as all under normal democratic rule. Because there's no other way.

- Valeria Ilyinichna, are there questions to which you can not find the answer?
 - Sure. For example, I am saddened by this undying, ineradicable gene of communism. Maybe because I don't have it, I can't understand why people don't respect other people's wealth, why they don't want to earn theirs, but demand that they be shared. This is why all the troubles on the globe.